Where can I get an older version of Filemaker Pro (6.0 Mac)?

[Brian R.]

I have a Mac 10.4 and a Mac OS9.

My partner has a newer Mac laptop (not sure which version but I'm sure
it is 10.4 or later)

I have an older database on the OS9 that I would like to port into
Filemaker Pro.

If I obtain Filemaker Pro 6.0 and patch it to v.3 I will be able to
reprogram the database in Filemaker and port it to the newer machines
so my partner can use it as well.

Filemaker cust service was less than helpful, saying "because it is
unsupported, it is not available anywhere".

I -assume- this means, If I purchase Filemaker Pro 6.0 unsupported, it
would come without a license which means I could make less than 5
copies (two copies, one for my 10.4 and one for my partner's laptop)
but would be unable to upgrade the copies -- my partner would have to
purchase a separate copy if he wanted FM10. Then again, since it is
not freeware, if it's not available from Filemaker even in unsupported
format, how am I supposed to be able to obtain it?

[Lynn Allen]

Post by Brian R.
I have a Mac 10.4 and a Mac OS9.
My partner has a newer Mac laptop (not sure which version but I'm sure
it is 10.4 or later)
I have an older database on the OS9 that I would like to port into
Filemaker Pro.
If I obtain Filemaker Pro 6.0 and patch it to v.3 I will be able to
reprogram the database in Filemaker and port it to the newer machines
so my partner can use it as well.
Filemaker cust service was less than helpful, saying "because it is
unsupported, it is not available anywhere".
I -assume- this means, If I purchase Filemaker Pro 6.0 unsupported, it
would come without a license which means I could make less than 5
copies (two copies, one for my 10.4 and one for my partner's laptop)
but would be unable to upgrade the copies -- my partner would have to
purchase a separate copy if he wanted FM10. Then again, since it is
not freeware, if it's not available from Filemaker even in unsupported
format, how am I supposed to be able to obtain it?

Just use the currently shipping version, FM10. You do not need to run
an older db through FM6 to get it into 10.

If it's an .fp3 or .fp5 file format, it should convert directly. If
it's a non-FM db, export the data into a text, .csv, or Excel file
format and then open it in FM10.

But no, you will not be able to purchase FM6 and get an upgrade price
to 10. That ship has sailed.

[Your Name]

Post by Brian R.
I have a Mac 10.4 and a Mac OS9.
My partner has a newer Mac laptop (not sure which version but I'm sure
it is 10.4 or later)
I have an older database on the OS9 that I would like to port into
Filemaker Pro.
If I obtain Filemaker Pro 6.0 and patch it to v.3 I will be able to
reprogram the database in Filemaker and port it to the newer machines
so my partner can use it as well.
Filemaker cust service was less than helpful, saying "because it is
unsupported, it is not available anywhere".
I -assume- this means, If I purchase Filemaker Pro 6.0 unsupported, it
would come without a license which means I could make less than 5
copies (two copies, one for my 10.4 and one for my partner's laptop)
but would be unable to upgrade the copies -- my partner would have to
purchase a separate copy if he wanted FM10. Then again, since it is
not freeware, if it's not available from Filemaker even in unsupported
format, how am I supposed to be able to obtain it?

FileMaker 5.5 work on both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.4.

Hard Core Mac (http://www.hardcoremac.com) does have old versions of
software for sale, but it's ridiculously expensive ($350 for Filemaker 6 and
$300 for FileMaker 5.5!!!).

Another option is of course second-hand places like eBay.

BUT,
It would be a bit of a waste of money. As Lynn said, you can just buy
FileMaker 10 and quite easily convert the older version's files ... but the
converted files won't open in the older version of FileMaker, but you can
export the data from the converted files and import back into the older
version if you need to swap data, otherwise you'll need two licensed copies
of FileMaker 10.

Helpful Harry :o)

[Brian R.]

Post by Your Name
FileMaker 5.5 work on both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.4.
Hard Core Mac (http://www.hardcoremac.com) does have old versions of
software for sale, but it's ridiculously expensive ($350 for Filemaker 6 and
$300 for FileMaker 5.5!!!).
Another option is of course second-hand places like eBay.
BUT,
It would be a bit of a waste of money. As Lynn said, you can just buy
FileMaker 10 and quite easily convert the older version's files ... but the
converted files won't open in the older version of FileMaker, but you can
export the data from the converted files and import back into the older
version if you need to swap data, otherwise you'll need two licensed copies
of FileMaker 10.
Helpful Harry :o)

I appreciate that, but I think the previous poster misunderstood.
It's not in FM format currently.

I need a version of FM that will work on both machines so that I can
swap data
with the person on the newer machine.

Sounds to me like Filemaker 5.5 or Filemaker 6 do that.

(All he has to do is install his as an OSX program and I install mine
as a Classic program).

The issue, obviously, is where to find an older version of Filemaker
Pro (as I specified in
the subject of my message :-)

The fact that it's so expensive would seem to suggest that this is a
problem for other
people, not just me.

For reference, how much does it cost to buy Filemaker Pro 10?

It seems to me like EVERY edition costs $300, right?

Is this because you get free upgrades for each licensed copy?

If I purchase FM 6 from a licensed dealer such as HardcoreMac, can I
upgrade to FM 10
later without having to pay (100%) extra? I am not talking about
additional licensed copies,
I would only be using it on two machines.

[David Empson]

Post by Brian R.

Post by Your Name
FileMaker 5.5 work on both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.4.
Hard Core Mac (http://www.hardcoremac.com) does have old versions of
software for sale, but it's ridiculously expensive ($350 for Filemaker 6 and
$300 for FileMaker 5.5!!!).
Another option is of course second-hand places like eBay.
BUT,
It would be a bit of a waste of money. As Lynn said, you can just buy
FileMaker 10 and quite easily convert the older version's files ... but the
converted files won't open in the older version of FileMaker, but you can
export the data from the converted files and import back into the older
version if you need to swap data, otherwise you'll need two licensed copies
of FileMaker 10.

I appreciate that, but I think the previous poster misunderstood.
It's not in FM format currently.
I need a version of FM that will work on both machines so that I can swap
data with the person on the newer machine.
Sounds to me like Filemaker 5.5 or Filemaker 6 do that.

Yes. These are the only two versions which run natively in both Mac OS 9
and Mac OS X.

They use the same file format (.fp5), but FMP6 has a few additional
features, so you would be better off if you can locate a suitable number
of licences of FMP6 rather than 5.5. As far as I can tell, both versions
still work under Mac OS X 10.6, though I haven't used all their
features.

If you want the two computers to be able to network to each other
(database hosted on one, accessed on the other), you must have two
licences of FileMaker Pro, as each has a unique licence key and they
check for duplicates when you network them.

Even if you run them independently and copy the database file back and
forth as required, you still need two copies as the licence agreement
does not permit two people to use one licence.

Post by Brian R.
(All he has to do is install his as an OSX program and I install mine
as a Classic program).
The issue, obviously, is where to find an older version of Filemaker
Pro (as I specified in the subject of my message :-)

I can't help there.

Post by Brian R.
The fact that it's so expensive would seem to suggest that this is a
problem for other people, not just me.

Someone selling FileMaker Pro 5.5 or 6 for US$300 or more is trying to
get away with murder. That is its original retail price (roughly).

Post by Brian R.
For reference, how much does it cost to buy Filemaker Pro 10?

US$299.

Post by Brian R.
It seems to me like EVERY edition costs $300, right?

Yes. (Ignoring variants such as Advanced/Developer, and Server.)

Post by Brian R.
Is this because you get free upgrades for each licensed copy?

No. Upgrades to a later version cost US$179, but there is a limit how
far back you can upgrade.

In general, you can upgrade from the two previous versions, and
sometimes they extend it a little further.

In the case of FileMaker Pro 10, you can upgrade from 8, 8.5 or 9. If
you have version 7 or earlier you have to pay full price to get version
10.

Post by Brian R.
If I purchase FM 6 from a licensed dealer such as HardcoreMac, can I
upgrade to FM 10 later without having to pay (100%) extra?

No. You would have to pay full price.

You might be able to save money by locating a second-hand upgrade copy
of FileMaker Pro 8, for less than US$120. I don't recall offhand whether
8.5 permitted upgrading from 6. 9 didn't.

Post by Brian R.
I am not talking about additional licensed copies, I would only be using
it on two machines.

To use it on two machines you need two licences.

(There is an exception for one user being permitted to run a copy on a
work computer and on a laptop they take home; they can't be used at the
same time, nor by two people.)

[Brian R.]

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
Sounds to me like Filemaker 5.5 or Filemaker 6 do that.

Yes. These are the only two versions which run natively in both Mac OS 9
and Mac OS X.

Probably what I need then.

Post by David Empson
They use the same file format (.fp5), but FMP6 has a few additional
features, so you would be better off if you can locate a suitable number
of licences of FMP6 rather than 5.5. As far as I can tell, both versions
still work under Mac OS X 10.6, though I haven't used all their
features.
If you want the two computers to be able to network to each other
(database hosted on one, accessed on the other), you must have two
licences of FileMaker Pro, as each has a unique licence key and they
check for duplicates when you network them.
Even if you run them independently and copy the database file back and
forth as required, you still need two copies as the licence agreement
does not permit two people to use one licence.

How do you get two licenses? Do you have to pay full retail price per
license, or do you have to purchase two sets of CDs/two retail boxes?
Scratch that, bit of a rhetorical question, since you suggest a
solution, below.

Sounds like the resellers aren't the only ones getting away with
murder...

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
It seems to me like EVERY edition costs $300, right?

Yes. (Ignoring variants such as Advanced/Developer, and Server.)

Post by Brian R.
Is this because you get free upgrades for each licensed copy?

No. Upgrades to a later version cost US$179, but there is a limit how
far back you can upgrade.

So even if I had FM9 running on 10.4 right now and wanted to upgrade
to FM10 I'd have to pay $179, to have it remain supported. Oh well,
at least it's a quality program.

Post by David Empson
In general, you can upgrade from the two previous versions, and
sometimes they extend it a little further.
In the case of FileMaker Pro 10, you can upgrade from 8, 8.5 or 9. If
you have version 7 or earlier you have to pay full price to get version
10.

Post by Brian R.
If I purchase FM 6 from a licensed dealer such as HardcoreMac, can I
upgrade to FM 10 later without having to pay (100%) extra?

No. You would have to pay full price.
You might be able to save money by locating a second-hand upgrade copy
of FileMaker Pro 8, for less than US$120. I don't recall offhand whether
8.5 permitted upgrading from 6. 9 didn't.

What I can do is purchase 6 from Hardcore Mac (it is "on sale" for
$240)
and use on both machines, or look for a second-hand copy on ebay
or somewhere, for the laptop.

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
I am not talking about additional licensed copies, I would only be using
it on two machines.

To use it on two machines you need two licences.
(There is an exception for one user being permitted to run a copy on a
work computer and on a laptop they take home; they can't be used at the
same time, nor by two people.)

That is indeed the exact case in my situation.

It's a single household; one OS9, one laptop.

(The other mac I'm using here at home doesn't need a copy of the
program.)

Can I network the two copies under this exception? I don't even
expect
to normally have to access it here at home, only on the laptop, but I
do
need to be able to occasionally have access from home. Not at the
same time as anyone else, obviously!

Thank God they're all macs... Oh, and thanks so much for the input,
you guys!

[David Empson]

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
Sounds to me like Filemaker 5.5 or Filemaker 6 do that.

Yes. These are the only two versions which run natively in both Mac OS 9
and Mac OS X.

Probably what I need then.

Post by David Empson
They use the same file format (.fp5), but FMP6 has a few additional
features, so you would be better off if you can locate a suitable number
of licences of FMP6 rather than 5.5. As far as I can tell, both versions
still work under Mac OS X 10.6, though I haven't used all their
features.
If you want the two computers to be able to network to each other
(database hosted on one, accessed on the other), you must have two
licences of FileMaker Pro, as each has a unique licence key and they
check for duplicates when you network them.
Even if you run them independently and copy the database file back and
forth as required, you still need two copies as the licence agreement
does not permit two people to use one licence.

How do you get two licenses? Do you have to pay full retail price per
license, or do you have to purchase two sets of CDs/two retail boxes?

The normal combination is one licence per retail package.

At normal retail pricing, the cost for two people to run any version of
FileMaker Pro will be about US$600. Upgrading both of them to a later
version (within the range of supported versions for upgrade) will cost
about US$360.

FileMaker also have multi-licence packs (5 being the smallest I'm aware
of), which work out cheaper than buying the same number of standalone
copies, but not for 4 or fewer users.

Post by Brian R.
Scratch that, bit of a rhetorical question, since you suggest a
solution, below.
Sounds like the resellers aren't the only ones getting away with
murder...

There are some options which work out cheaper for certain cases:

1. FileMaker Pro Advanced (known as FileMaker Developer around the
version 6 era) costs about US$500 now (don't know what it cost back in
version 6).

It lets you create a standalone "runtime" application which is bound to
a particular database. The runtime can be used by as many people as you
like - you don't need to buy a copy of FileMaker Pro for each of them.
They all work on a local copy of the data (no networking), which could
be complicated if you need to merge data changes from multiple people.

The runtime has no facility for modifying the structure of the database
- to do that you need the full edition of FileMaker Pro (or FileMaker
Pro Advanced).

2. FileMaker Pro has a Web Companion which lets FMP act as a web server.
Up to five other people can connect to the database hosted by FMP from a
standard web browser, including modifying data. There are some
limitations on what can be done via the web interface.

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
It seems to me like EVERY edition costs $300, right?

Yes. (Ignoring variants such as Advanced/Developer, and Server.)

Post by Brian R.
Is this because you get free upgrades for each licensed copy?

No. Upgrades to a later version cost US$179, but there is a limit how
far back you can upgrade.

So even if I had FM9 running on 10.4 right now and wanted to upgrade
to FM10 I'd have to pay $179, to have it remain supported. Oh well,
at least it's a quality program.

Correct.

Also worth keeping in mind that FileMaker typically releases a new
version every 12 to 18 months, and we're about 13 months into the
lifetime of version 10. The next version can't be far away.

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson
In general, you can upgrade from the two previous versions, and
sometimes they extend it a little further.
In the case of FileMaker Pro 10, you can upgrade from 8, 8.5 or 9. If
you have version 7 or earlier you have to pay full price to get version
10.

Post by Brian R.
If I purchase FM 6 from a licensed dealer such as HardcoreMac, can I
upgrade to FM 10 later without having to pay (100%) extra?

No. You would have to pay full price.
You might be able to save money by locating a second-hand upgrade copy
of FileMaker Pro 8, for less than US$120. I don't recall offhand whether
8.5 permitted upgrading from 6. 9 didn't.

What I can do is purchase 6 from Hardcore Mac (it is "on sale" for
$240) and use on both machines, or look for a second-hand copy on ebay
or somewhere, for the laptop.

Post by David Empson

Post by Brian R.
I am not talking about additional licensed copies, I would only be using
it on two machines.

To use it on two machines you need two licences.
(There is an exception for one user being permitted to run a copy on a
work computer and on a laptop they take home; they can't be used at the
same time, nor by two people.)

That is indeed the exact case in my situation.
It's a single household; one OS9, one laptop.
(The other mac I'm using here at home doesn't need a copy of the
program.)
Can I network the two copies under this exception?

No. The second copy will refuse to run at all if the other installed
copy is already running on another computer on the same network.

You would need to quit FileMaker Pro on the desktop computer before
running it on the laptop (or vice versa).

You should never use file sharing to access a FileMaker Pro database
across a network (copy it to the computer which needs to access it), and
you must close the database in FileMaker Pro (or quit the application)
before attempting to copy it.

If you had two separate licences, the two copies could run at the same
time, one of them could host the database and the other could access it
over the network (via FileMaker's built-in sharing protocol, not via
standard file sharing).

Post by Brian R.
I don't even expect to normally have to access it here at home, only on
the laptop, but I do need to be able to occasionally have access from
home. Not at the same time as anyone else, obviously!
Thank God they're all macs... Oh, and thanks so much for the input,
you guys!

Windows wouldn't be a problem - FileMaker Pro is cross platform.

The licence would be a problem - the desktop/laptop exclusion only
applies if both are running on the same platform.

[Brian R.]

<snip>

PS -- Obviously I know the old version and the computer it's running
on are old and "unsupported" (although I think it's stupid of them not
to make old versions available, I guess their sales contract provides
a service guarantee or something, so they "can't". Although if one is
guaranteed a free or discounted upgrade, it wouldn't seem a waste of
money... does the license prohibit you from installing it on two
machines instead of one?)

But this is a valuable database (to my small community organization)
and needs to be in Filemaker not Excel. I can't simply dump it on him
(the guy I'll be sharing it with) as an Excel file and hope he imports
it and updates it properly on his computer which I don't always have
access to... I want to be able to manipulate it on the old machine, so
I can give him a complete and usable product.

(The nature of what I want, not system requirements, dictates that I
want to convert it into Filemaker Pro. It was never suitable as an
Excel spreadsheet, but we never had a proper database program with
dynamic variables and the ability to pull up name cards for each entry
-- on any of our machines. The OpenOffice guys suggested FileMaker
too, for the type of tools I was looking for.)

Thanks again for your help.

[Brian R.]

On Feb 19, 8:24 pm, "Brian R." <***@erols.com> wrote:

<snip>

P.P.S. -- I would be willing to purchase from Hardcore mac, thanks so
much for referring me to them.

(I just spent $250 repairing a door for the same community project I
need this database for,
and the repair didn't work. And the database is more important than
the door...)

But I would be more eager to purchase if buying a licensed version
allows my partner to upgrade to FM10 at a discount,

since one of the two computers I'll be using it on allows an upgrade.
Both computers are in the same household
but one is a laptop. (Does the factory authentication allow
downloaded onto two machines? If so I'll download it
onto the laptop first so that is the primary licensed machine, that
way he can upgrade at a later date, if license
holders are allowed to upgrade at a discount. I obviously don't need
free upgrades on the old machine.)

If one has to purchase FileMaker Pro at full price every time a new
version comes out, scratch the foregoing. :-L

[Your Name]

In article

Post by Brian R.
<snip>
P.P.S. -- I would be willing to purchase from Hardcore mac, thanks so
much for referring me to them.
(I just spent $250 repairing a door for the same community project I
need this database for,
and the repair didn't work. And the database is more important than
the door...)
But I would be more eager to purchase if buying a licensed version
allows my partner to upgrade to FM10 at a discount,
since one of the two computers I'll be using it on allows an upgrade.
Both computers are in the same household
but one is a laptop. (Does the factory authentication allow
downloaded onto two machines? If so I'll download it
onto the laptop first so that is the primary licensed machine, that
way he can upgrade at a later date, if license
holders are allowed to upgrade at a discount. I obviously don't need
free upgrades on the old machine.)
If one has to purchase FileMaker Pro at full price every time a new
version comes out, scratch the foregoing. :-L

Upgrading from really old versions (e.g. FileMaker 6 to FIleMaker 10) does
require a full purchase.

Upgrading from more recent versions (e.g. FileMaker 9 to FileMaker 10) can
be done at a cheaper "upgrade" price.

Most software upgrades are priced this way.

If both Macs are running Mac OS X 10.4 (your original message did say "I
have a Mac 10.4 and a Mac OS9."), you're probably better off going with
FileMaker 10, but check both machines fit the requirements first:
http://www.filemaker.com/products/filemaker-pro/pro-10-specifications.html

If one is still using only Mac OS 9 or if you're still wanting FileMaker
5.5 or 6, then I'd look around. It should be possible to get it cheaper
than HardcoreMac.com from somewhere like eBay (although as usual be wary
of scams). I wasn't really recommending them, but the only place I know of
selling old software, but their prices are over-the-top even if the
products are brand new / unused versions (possibly trading on the fact
that it's difficult to find elsewhere).

Obviously the older version doesn't have all the features of the newer
version, so you may also need to check that FileMaker 5.5 or 6 actually
has the features you want.

Either way, you will need to buy two copies to get two licenses (it might
be possible to buy a single copy and then buy just a second license code
from FileMaker Inc.).


Helpful Harry :o)

[Lynn Allen]

Post by Brian R.
-- Obviously I know the old version and the computer it's running
on are old and "unsupported" (although I think it's stupid of them not
to make old versions available, I guess their sales contract provides
a service guarantee or something, so they "can't". Although if one is
guaranteed a free or discounted upgrade, it wouldn't seem a waste of
money... does the license prohibit you from installing it on two
machines instead of one?)
But this is a valuable database (to my small community organization)
and needs to be in Filemaker not Excel. I can't simply dump it on him
(the guy I'll be sharing it with) as an Excel file and hope he imports
it and updates it properly on his computer which I don't always have
access to... I want to be able to manipulate it on the old machine, so
I can give him a complete and usable product.
(The nature of what I want, not system requirements, dictates that I
want to convert it into Filemaker Pro. It was never suitable as an
Excel spreadsheet, but we never had a proper database program with
dynamic variables and the ability to pull up name cards for each entry
-- on any of our machines. The OpenOffice guys suggested FileMaker
too, for the type of tools I was looking for.)

You might consider buying a copy of FM10 Advanced, and using the
developer tools included to give your remote user a "runtime" version
of the database. This does not require him to have a copy of FM or a
license therefore.

He can export his entered data and email it to you, or return the whole
db to you so you can do it. Or give him the FM10Advanced and you use
the runtime.

Runtimes cannot be networked, but they can certainly import/export data
to synchronize data sets.

If that doesn't work because of OS issues (yes, you're really going to
have to upgrade one of these days, and I've lost track of who can run
what) get a copy of FMPro 10, put it on the newer machine, and set up
Instant Web Publishing to enter data over the web. The person on the
other end doesn't need FM. The reason everybody doesn't do this is that
the sessions are limited in number, so it's better with a small group
of web users. Most users need more connections.

[Remi-Noel Menegaux]

Hi,
By the way, I run everyday FMDev6 DB on my iMac MacOS X, AND on my PC with
Vista Pro. It works as a charm - I am an FM developer -.
Now, if you wish to have the database unique on one of the machines, let it
there, be sure there no other copy of the DB on the network - as FMP is very
quick in finding another copy of a given file, thus jeopardizing the
result... -. Then open the 5003 port (reserved to FileMaker) on every
firewall - at least the ones on the OS machines themselves plus on the
router(s) - Then make the DB 'multiuser' and allow each copy of FM to have
the TCP/IP protocole open. At last, run 'File' / 'Open remote' from the
remote computer, and open the (remote) DB.
Clear enough ?
Remi-Noel

*************

Post by Brian R.
I have a Mac 10.4 and a Mac OS9.
My partner has a newer Mac laptop (not sure which version but I'm sure
it is 10.4 or later)
I have an older database on the OS9 that I would like to port into
Filemaker Pro.
If I obtain Filemaker Pro 6.0 and patch it to v.3 I will be able to
reprogram the database in Filemaker and port it to the newer machines
so my partner can use it as well.
Filemaker cust service was less than helpful, saying "because it is
unsupported, it is not available anywhere".
I -assume- this means, If I purchase Filemaker Pro 6.0 unsupported, it
would come without a license which means I could make less than 5
copies (two copies, one for my 10.4 and one for my partner's laptop)
but would be unable to upgrade the copies -- my partner would have to
purchase a separate copy if he wanted FM10. Then again, since it is
not freeware, if it's not available from Filemaker even in unsupported
format, how am I supposed to be able to obtain it?

[Brian R.]

Thanks everyone for the input so far.

Lynn -- I'm not really sure I understand the idea of a "runtime"
version if the two copies are not allowed to access the same file. (I
don't need both computers to access the same file simultaneously.)

Remi --

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
By the way, I run everyday FMDev6 DB on my iMac MacOS X,
AND on my PC with Vista Pro. It works as a charm - I am
an FM developer -.

I don't have a problem using FM 6 especially since I don't think I
need it for advanced applications (does the developer version do SQL
type stuff or do you even need it for that if you have a decent
webhost? I am not a webmaster although I do basic HTML, but we do need
to upgrade our organization's website. We would like to use javascript
forms so that people can enter small amounts of data into a small data
set to keep track of requests; this could be done with SQL (which I
know nothing about) or javascript-and-a-DAT file (I suppose). Is FM
useful for that? I imagine allowing people to upload data via a
javascript form would require an SQL database or something. Perhaps
our webhost (a standard hosting company) has that. Would FM be able to
read and manipulate the resulting data?

However, what we really need an actual program for is our private
contact list, which only needs to be on these two machines, and I was
hoping to be able to share them across both machines without having to
e-mail back and forth (I don't need them to be fully networked, I just
mean the file would be on one machine, FM would upload it to an online
archive when saved, and if I opened it up on the laptop it would be
the same file. Is that how it works?) Full disclosure, I used to work
in web and my family helps run a small community nonprofit and that is
what we use the DB for.

Remi --

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
Now, if you wish to have the database unique on one of
the machines, let it there, be sure there no other copy
of the DB on the network - as FMP is very quick in finding
another copy of a given file, thus jeopardizing the
result... -. Then open the 5003 port (reserved to
FileMaker) on every firewall - at least the ones on
the OS machines themselves plus on the router(s) - Then
make the DB 'multiuser' and allow each copy of FM to
have the TCP/IP protocole open. At last, run 'File' /
'Open remote' from the remote computer, and open the
(remote) DB.

Yes, I think I understand! In other words, the file would be saved
(not hosted) on one computer, but could be accessed remotely via FM's
own TCP/IP connection, as if you would access a file on a LAN. When I
access it remotely from home (I would host the file on the laptop to
prevent future complications, since it is a newer computer) would be
manipulating the only copy of the file and would have to "open remote"
and "save remote" during which period it could not be accessed from
the computer on which the file is saved (which is not a problem).

Does all of the foregoing require the Advanced edition (or
FM6Developer in this case)?

David --

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson
To use it on two machines you need two licences.
(There is an exception for one user being permitted to
run a copy on a work computer and on a laptop they take
home; they can't be used at the same time, nor by two people.)

That is indeed the exact case in my situation.
It's a single household; one OS9, one laptop.
(The other mac I'm using here at home doesn't need a copy
of the program.)
Can I network the two copies under this exception?

No. The second copy will refuse to run at all if the
other installed copy is already running on another
computer on the same network.

Excuse me, I'm probably using inaccurate layman's term for "network".

* Would I be able to save the file on a single machine
and access it on one other if needed? Not at the same
time, but remotely.

* Would the DB be able to automatically read and manipulate
data from our website, such as a simple javascript contact
form, and save it on that one machine?

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
You would need to quit FileMaker Pro on the desktop
computer before running it on the laptop (or vice versa).

Makes sense. I take it all recent versions of FMPro automatically
connect to the Internet on launch...

Ah, but that conflicts with what Remi said about multiuser, which
would require both programs to be ON in order to access the file, or
does it?

if the data is all accessible over a TCP port and/or if FMPro
automatically makes an online backup, how do I know it is secure?

I am new to online databases, as you can tell.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
You should never use file sharing to access a FileMaker
Pro database across a network (copy it to the computer
which needs to access it), and you must close the
database in FileMaker Pro (or quit the application)
before attempting to copy it.

Does "open remote" do this as mentioned by Remi above?

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
If you had two separate licences, the two copies could
run at the same time, one of them could host the database
and the other could access it over the network (via
FileMaker's built-in sharing protocol, not via standard
file sharing).

And a second license in and of itself would cost full retail price,
since the discount is only for large users.

If I purchased a second, opened unused older version of FMPro on Ebay
or somewhere, could I use that license to run a second copy of the
same FileMaker6 CD, or is each license tied to the software/CD install
it comes with?

Sorry for so many questions.

[Your Name]

Post by Brian R.
Thanks everyone for the input so far.
Lynn -- I'm not really sure I understand the idea of a "runtime"
version if the two copies are not allowed to access the same file. (I
don't need both computers to access the same file simultaneously.)

A "runtime" is really a custom application / cut-down version of FileMaker
that can be installed on any computer without needing any licensing. The
problems are that a runtime cannot be used to access a shared database and
cannot be used to makes changes to the database's structure.

The "runtime" itself is created using a licensed version of the more
expensive FileMaker Advanced. (Note: FileMaker has renamed their products
over the years, so older versions of "Advanced" and "Server" may have a
different name.)

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson
You should never use file sharing to access a FileMaker
Pro database across a network (copy it to the computer
which needs to access it), and you must close the
database in FileMaker Pro (or quit the application)
before attempting to copy it.

Does "open remote" do this as mentioned by Remi above?

Post by David Empson
If you had two separate licences, the two copies could
run at the same time, one of them could host the database
and the other could access it over the network (via
FileMaker's built-in sharing protocol, not via standard
file sharing).

And a second license in and of itself would cost full retail price,
since the discount is only for large users.
If I purchased a second, opened unused older version of FMPro on Ebay
or somewhere, could I use that license to run a second copy of the
same FileMaker6 CD, or is each license tied to the software/CD install
it comes with?

You can share a database by opening the file in FileMaker on one computer
(from it's hard drive) and then using FileMaker on the second computer to
connect (not open) to the file over the network. For this you must have two
fully licensed versions of FileMaker.

You are not meant to open FileMaker databases using the operating system's
sharing functions, so you can't open the database on the second computer
from the first computer's hard drive - this also means you can't store the
database on a shared network hard drive. If you want to store the database
on a network server, then you ALSO need a licensed copy of FileMaker Server
as well as two copies of FileMaker.

You're should have two copies of the same version of FileMaker (technically
FileMaker 6 can open FileMaker 5.5 files, etc.), which will each include
their own license code and CD. As far as I know, the license codes are
unique to each version of FileMaker - you can't enter a FileMaker 8 license
code in FileMaker 6, not vice-versa.


Helpful Harry :o)

[David Empson]

As far as I know, the license codes are unique to each version of
FileMaker - you can't enter a FileMaker 8 license code in FileMaker 6, not
vice-versa.

Correct.

[David Empson]

Post by Brian R.
Thanks everyone for the input so far.
Lynn -- I'm not really sure I understand the idea of a "runtime"
version if the two copies are not allowed to access the same file. (I
don't need both computers to access the same file simultaneously.)

FileMaker Developer creates a runtime version of the database: it ties
together a copy of the database and the runtime engine, which is
basically a cut-down version of FileMaker Pro.

The runtime engine only works with your database (specific files
selected during the binding process in FileMaker Developer), and is
missing all the structural editing features of FileMaker Pro - any
changes to layouts, field definitions, scripts, etc. must be done using
FileMaker Developer (or a separate copy of FileMaker Pro).

Once you have created a runtime copy of your database, the database
files and the runtime engine can be copied as many times as you like.
There is no licence key.

The runtime database can export and import data, which could be used to
merge changes between multiple copies.

(FileMaker Developer was renamed as FileMaker Pro Advanced somewhere
around version 8; in later versions it has a few extra features useful
for doing database development such as copying table structures between
files. I didn't use it before version 9 so don't know exactly which
features are in FileMaker Developer 6.)

Post by Brian R.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
By the way, I run everyday FMDev6 DB on my iMac MacOS X,
AND on my PC with Vista Pro. It works as a charm - I am
an FM developer -.

I don't have a problem using FM 6 especially since I don't think I
need it for advanced applications (does the developer version do SQL
type stuff or do you even need it for that if you have a decent
webhost?

The developer version doesn't add any functionality to the database
itself. It allows you to create runtime databases and maybe some
additional features for modifying the database.

Some SQL functionality was added in later versions of FileMaker Pro (so
aren't an option with Mac OS 9).

Version 6 has ODBC support, which might work in conjunction with some
SQL databases (if they also have ODBC support).

Post by Brian R.
I am not a webmaster although I do basic HTML, but we do need
to upgrade our organization's website. We would like to use javascript
forms so that people can enter small amounts of data into a small data
set to keep track of requests; this could be done with SQL (which I
know nothing about) or javascript-and-a-DAT file (I suppose). Is FM
useful for that? I imagine allowing people to upload data via a
javascript form would require an SQL database or something. Perhaps
our webhost (a standard hosting company) has that. Would FM be able to
read and manipulate the resulting data?

Version 6 couldn't deal directly with SQL, but you could use an SQL
database to collect the data, and have a mechanism to export it in a
file format which can be imported by FileMaker Pro (such as a
tab-delimited text file).

Post by Brian R.
However, what we really need an actual program for is our private
contact list, which only needs to be on these two machines, and I was
hoping to be able to share them across both machines without having to
e-mail back and forth (I don't need them to be fully networked, I just
mean the file would be on one machine, FM would upload it to an online
archive when saved, and if I opened it up on the laptop it would be
the same file. Is that how it works?)

Not directly. FileMaker Pro has a mechanism to export a clone of the
database, which could be to a file sharing server, or to a local folder
and then FileMaker Pro could invoke an AppleScript to run some external
tool to create an online archive.

The other direction (updating a local database from an online archive)
would be complicated, especially if you need to merge changes. It would
be better to export just the data which needs to be merged and import
that data.

Post by Brian R.
Full disclosure, I used to work in web and my family helps run a small
community nonprofit and that is what we use the DB for.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
Now, if you wish to have the database unique on one of
the machines, let it there, be sure there no other copy
of the DB on the network - as FMP is very quick in finding
another copy of a given file, thus jeopardizing the
result... -. Then open the 5003 port (reserved to
FileMaker) on every firewall - at least the ones on
the OS machines themselves plus on the router(s) - Then
make the DB 'multiuser' and allow each copy of FM to
have the TCP/IP protocole open. At last, run 'File' /
'Open remote' from the remote computer, and open the
(remote) DB.

Yes, I think I understand! In other words, the file would be saved
(not hosted) on one computer, but could be accessed remotely via FM's
own TCP/IP connection, as if you would access a file on a LAN. When I
access it remotely from home (I would host the file on the laptop to
prevent future complications, since it is a newer computer) would be
manipulating the only copy of the file and would have to "open remote"
and "save remote" during which period it could not be accessed from
the computer on which the file is saved (which is not a problem).

Almost.

Doing this would require two licences of FileMaker Pro.

The "host" computer has to be running FileMaker Pro, have the database
file(s) open and set to be shared. The "guest" computer can then use
Open Remote to connect to FileMaker Pro on the "host" computer.

It is possible for both computers to be modifying data at the same time
(but not the same record).

Minor database structure changes can be made by the guest (scripting,
relationships, passwords, value lists, layouts).

The guest cannot do major structural changes to the database (field
defintions, change layout order, groups and access privileges).

Any of these would require working on the host computer with no guests
connected, or closing the database on the host, taking a copy of the
database file, working on it locally, then replacing the copy on the
host.

File management can only be done on the host (save a copy of the
database, turn on/off multi-user access, close a shared file).

Post by Brian R.
Does all of the foregoing require the Advanced edition (or
FM6Developer in this case)?

No. Sharing the database via TCP/IP is a standard feature of FileMaker
Pro.

The runtime versions created with FileMaker Developer (or FileMaker Pro
Advanced) do NOT have network sharing support.

Post by Brian R.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux

Post by Brian R.

Post by David Empson
To use it on two machines you need two licences.
(There is an exception for one user being permitted to
run a copy on a work computer and on a laptop they take
home; they can't be used at the same time, nor by two people.)

That is indeed the exact case in my situation.
It's a single household; one OS9, one laptop.
(The other mac I'm using here at home doesn't need a copy
of the program.)
Can I network the two copies under this exception?

No. The second copy will refuse to run at all if the
other installed copy is already running on another
computer on the same network.

Excuse me, I'm probably using inaccurate layman's term for "network".
* Would I be able to save the file on a single machine
and access it on one other if needed? Not at the same
time, but remotely.

If you have two licence of FileMaker Pro and use FileMaker Pro's
built-in networking features, yes.

If you have a single licence of FileMaker Pro and have installed it on
two computers (work and home), they cannot connect to each other via
FileMaker Pro's network support, because they have the same licence key.
The only way to get database files back and forth in this configuration
is to manually copy them.

Post by Brian R.
* Would the DB be able to automatically read and manipulate
data from our website, such as a simple javascript contact
form, and save it on that one machine?

Depends on how the web site stores that data. If it is output to
something like a plain text file in a form that FileMaker Pro can
directly import, then yes.

An SQL database as a temporary store is probably a good idea, to deal
with multi-user access issues (two web clients creating records at the
same time).

Post by Brian R.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
You would need to quit FileMaker Pro on the desktop
computer before running it on the laptop (or vice versa).

Makes sense. I take it all recent versions of FMPro automatically
connect to the Internet on launch...

No, they just look on the local network for other running copies of
FileMaker Pro with the same licence key.

Post by Brian R.
Ah, but that conflicts with what Remi said about multiuser, which
would require both programs to be ON in order to access the file, or
does it?

Yes; both copies must have different licence keys in order to use
FileMaker Pro's network sharing (you need to buy two copies of FileMaker
Pro to do this).

Post by Brian R.
if the data is all accessible over a TCP port and/or if FMPro
automatically makes an online backup, how do I know it is secure?

Usual methods, e.g. firewall to limit access to that port. No problem if
everything is on the local network (assuming you trust the other
computers).

If you need external access, you will have to open a port via your
firewall or NAT router, or do something more secure like set up a VPN
between the two locations.

You can set up FileMaker Pro to require a password to access the
database, but the connection is not encrypted (I don't know if the
password is sent securely).

There is no automatic online backup - you would have to construct your
own mechanism for that.

Post by Brian R.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
You should never use file sharing to access a FileMaker
Pro database across a network (copy it to the computer
which needs to access it), and you must close the
database in FileMaker Pro (or quit the application)
before attempting to copy it.

Does "open remote" do this as mentioned by Remi above?

I was talking about a different issue: using Mac OS X's standard file
sharing to store the database on one computer and accessing it directly
over the network from FileMaker Pro on another computer.

This is not a good idea. It is especially bad if FileMaker Pro is able
to be run on two computers which access the same file. Doing this will
corrupt the database.

On the other hand, the "Open Remote" feature requires that both
computers be running FileMaker Pro and that the "host" computer has the
database open. FileMaker Pro itself deals with synchronization issues
required to share access to the same database file.

Post by Brian R.

Post by Remi-Noel Menegaux
If you had two separate licences, the two copies could
run at the same time, one of them could host the database
and the other could access it over the network (via
FileMaker's built-in sharing protocol, not via standard
file sharing).

And a second license in and of itself would cost full retail price,
since the discount is only for large users.

Yes.

Post by Brian R.
If I purchased a second, opened unused older version of FMPro on Ebay
or somewhere, could I use that license to run a second copy of the
same FileMaker6 CD, or is each license tied to the software/CD install
it comes with?

You just need the licence key. The physical media is independent.

Note that an "upgrade" licence key requires validation that you own a
previous version, typically by looking for an installed copy of an older
version.

Recent versions will let you enter the licence key for a previous
version to confirm you own it, but I can't see that option mentioned in
the installation guide for FileMaker Pro 6.

[Per Rønne]

Post by David Empson
If you have a single licence of FileMaker Pro and have installed it on
two computers (work and home), they cannot connect to each other via
FileMaker Pro's network support, because they have the same licence key.
The only way to get database files back and forth in this configuration
is to manually copy them.

I use Synchronize Pro to sync various files between my MacMini [open
24/7 as a server] and my MacBook [used when away form 'home']. I use
FileMaker Pro 9 Advanced and it is allowed to have up till two
installations on different computers. The number af computers with
installations is controlled through 'activation' and 'de-activation'
over the internet.

I haven't tried working directly between two installed versions of FM to
the same database - but it is fully possible to do it without the need
of more than one FMP installations. Just publish the databse
[File->Sharing] to the net, be it a LAN or the internet [with port
forwarding in the router].

Personally, I have no use of that as both computers together with two
others are using the same display, keyboard and trackball through this
4-port DVI KVMP-switch:

<http://www.iogear.com/product/GCS1104/>

[David Empson]

Post by Per Rønne

Post by David Empson
If you have a single licence of FileMaker Pro and have installed it on
two computers (work and home), they cannot connect to each other via
FileMaker Pro's network support, because they have the same licence key.
The only way to get database files back and forth in this configuration
is to manually copy them.

I use Synchronize Pro to sync various files between my MacMini [open
24/7 as a server] and my MacBook [used when away form 'home']. I use
FileMaker Pro 9 Advanced and it is allowed to have up till two
installations on different computers.

Fine in your case, but that isn't the situation being discussed in this
thread.

The licence agreement allows two installations with the same licence key
for use by the same person on a work computer and a home or portable
computer. (But they can't be used in the same location simultaneously.)

It does not permit two installations with the same licence key which are
used by different people.

Post by Per Rønne
The number af computers with installations is controlled through
'activation' and 'de-activation' over the internet.

The activation mechanism was only used in FileMaker Pro 9 (and
Advanced), and then only for retail copies, not multi-user licences.

(It is still described in the manual for FileMaker Pro 10, but the
mechanism isn't actually there any more, at least not in my copy of
FileMaker Pro Advanced 10.)

Post by Per Rønne
I haven't tried working directly between two installed versions of FM to
the same database - but it is fully possible to do it without the need
of more than one FMP installations. Just publish the databse
[File->Sharing] to the net, be it a LAN or the internet [with port
forwarding in the router].

Using file sharing to access a shared database is not recommended
(mainly due to greater risk of database corruption, especially over the
Internet). If you tried to access it simultaneously from two copies of
FileMaker Pro it would damage the database.

If you have two licence keys you don't need to risk OS-level file
sharing - just use FileMaker's built-in sharing, which is designed to
allow safe access to a shared database.

[Darren Burgess]

filemaker 5 through 6 are readily available on ebay for about $100-
$150